The Lumberyard Skiff
Dear All,
We have just moved to this new Forum, so I have had to copy comments #s 1-36 from the old site... I'm sorry for the temporary inconvenience, but this new site will permit Matt et al to post videos, etc. Thanks! Carl
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July 13, 2006
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I read where painting is going to be covered in November/December. In the event I finish this before then could you give a hint as to how to paint/finish the hull?
I was curious why it calls for filling and fairing compounds for the epoxy when it is only used to join the sideboards?
Had a comment on the post by chrisinms about use of a bandsaw and some other thoughts on shaping the inner stem.
The illustration in the article shows cutting one side. The way to cut the other side is to flip the stock around and cut from the other end. Only difference is that you'll have to start the cut on the side instead of the end. You have to do this because a band saw's table won't tilt that far in the other direction.
You do NOT want to turn the blade around. Trying to cut backwards like that would likely screw up several parts of the saw (thrust bearing, guide blocks, etc.) and, more critically, you'd risk pushing the blade out and having a nasty accident.
An alternative is to build a sloped track or carriage for the stock to ride in that holds it at the reverse angle.
For the traditionalists out there, the best solution is to use a wide-bladed bow saw (also called a frame saw). Basically a larger version of a coping saw with a wider blade that will track better. These can be found at many of the woodworking chains for under $50.
The quickest method is undoubtedly drawknifing (or even hatchet work followed by a drawknife). But that would take a bit of practice if you've never used one.
What would the Lumberyard Skiff weigh if built as specified?
were a the prints and such i dont know how long to cut or any thing am i missing something
I am going to build this boat!
Could I use plywood for the sides, instead of gluing up solid lumber?
~Dave~
Hi! I am a first time boat builder, but a woodshop teacher of over 35 years exp. I just received the Peace Canoe plans with WB. I am wondering about squaring off it's rear end to allow for a trolling or small power motor. Seems like it would work for me.
I don't see why not!! I think that is a great idea. Also make a sprit sail for the canoe. I like the looks of the peace canoe also.
4) Is the sailing version available? No, not yet. Maynard is currently prototyping that. Stay tuned.
Any progress on the sailing rig?
Thanks,
Steve Witter
Branford, CT
Two questions please
In the plans it doesn't look like the keel is attached to tne transom or bow stem. Why not?
I know it is reccommended to paint, but I've used alot of good looking lumber that I would hate to paint. I would like to varnish the sides from the joint seam up and then paint from the side seam down. Can I varnish the whole side then paint over the varnish with bottom paint? Thanks
how about a "preview" of WHAT boats will be featured over the next year???
also, how about plans for a 14-16 foot skiff that:
a. is capable of planeing with a outboard motor,
b. is made out of "lumberyard" stuff,
c. doesn't require materials that places like HD & lowe's don't have & won't even try to order &
d. is light enough to pull with a compact car.
THANKS, jim
Hey,Hey,HEY!!! I launched My Lumberyard Skiff last Saturday. She rows very well. Look in My wooden boat to see Her in the water. I'm Happy!
Just about finished, It took four timesas long to build because of toddler time got in the way, but the water is just begining to warm here in Nebraska. I did use ply for the bottom, 1/2' in the front and 1/4" on the back half. Long spiced 1 to 12 ratio. in the center and epoxied and glassed out side, fillit for a chin and seam glassed inside. I'm still carving oars but it will be soon now.
Victor, I can not wait to see your Skiff! My wife and I are having a great time with our skiff,every week-end. With the trolling motor she scoots good on the water. I'm waiting for the sail I ordered to see how she sails. I think she'll do fine with the sprit-rig. Hope to see pictures in the near future of your pride and joy! Jim.
I recently received my july/aug issue and found the Willy Windship idea very appealing. Are there more images/photos available? any past articles from WB on this craft? how does she sail? (I have visited the Atkin web site)
Thank you.
Do you have a canoe in the "getting started" series?
June 27th, 2006 at 7:12 pm e
I just received the latest “Wooden Boat” and saw the lumberyard skiff insert. Perhaps this is a boat I can actually afford to build!!!!! I just skimmed the article but couldn’t see anything about estimated cost. Any ideas???
June 29th, 2006 at 10:42 am e
Are the plan sets for a sail version of the lumberyard skiff available?
June 29th, 2006 at 2:41 pm e
I applaud the person or persons who came up with this idea! What a great way to overcome the intimidation factor inherent in all perspective boat builders!
June 29th, 2006 at 2:42 pm e
I meant “prospective” sic
June 29th, 2006 at 6:22 pm e
test
June 29th, 2006 at 6:35 pm e
Dear Peoples …. A while back I built a 15′ garvey from the plans in Wooden Boat # (i forget) I built it on chine logs and frames and plywood….. the only disappointing part was the fibreglassing …. which continually cracked and came away on the bends …. I hate using it.
I now wish to build a larger boat around 20-22′ skiff … with chine logs and frames again (i enjoy it) The boat will be on a trailer and housed in a shed .. Brisbane, Australia is hot tropical. it will be in the water about once a month … Is there any need to fibreglass sheath … apart from added protection against abrasion … ???
ta! greg
June 29th, 2006 at 11:26 pm e
hello all,im very new at this,,so i might ask some silly ?,s..,#1.. on step one when aligning boards (see step1/e) could i use a bicuit jointer? steve
June 29th, 2006 at 11:27 pm e
i mean biscuit jointer
July 1st, 2006 at 12:06 am e
Gr8 concept! Been borrowing, subscribing, library lounging over the years - and always reading - Wooden Boat since the beginning. Thanks for the enjoyment. This new feature may just get me off my duff and actually put one together. Note: Looks heavy: cartop or trailer? If trailer will the mag or future installment deal with trailer building? Since the Morgan has a wooden frame - there has to be someone out there that has done this somehow?
July 1st, 2006 at 12:12 am e
Per ACGURU: re: Biscuit Jointer
No practical experience but, would the enevitable small air pocket result in a weak point? Marine grade ply has the distinction of claiming no “voids” - would the concern over that be the same as with this construction? Or the extra stiffness result in an undesireable flatspot during bending?
July 1st, 2006 at 5:17 pm e
Hey Great site I just got mmy issue of WB and was thrilled to see you strating a boat building community. Wooden boat should have done this years ago.
July 1st, 2006 at 11:24 pm e
Bravo on the design and the whole concept! I think I can do this. What do you estimate the final weight to be? I too would be interested in a sailing version. Would an unstayed mast and leeboards be workable without having to make major modifications to the existing plan? Would a keel and/or a skeg be necessary?
July 2nd, 2006 at 12:09 am e
How much weight will the skiff safely carry? If I wanted to get around a little easier that rowing how large of an engine can be mounted?
July 2nd, 2006 at 3:45 pm e
I might have missed something, but I was looking for more details on the construction of the seats and especially the vertical pieces that they appear to slot into.
Are we expected to be able to build from the article, or is a key point the purchase of the plans - not that that would be a problem, just trying to see when then fiquring out should stop and the cutting begin.
July 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pm e
I was looking for a goop free( read, not an epoxy/ply boat) boat to build with my kids this summer in an effort to get them off the video for a few hrs. This natural lumber craft is just the ticket. I am surprised that the four sheets aren’t available in pdf or similar on this website, not that $35. is a lotta dough. It’s more the hassle of snailmail, combined with the mixed message: Profit vs. edu. Still, I think we’ll build this one (off the original supplement).
I also have a question as to whether the plans in the supplement are the actual and total sheet mat’l that is on the purchased plan.
July 3rd, 2006 at 9:30 pm e
re.biscuit jointer,,,thanks for the responce, my main concern also would be the possible flat spots in bending.
July 4th, 2006 at 7:51 pm e
Hi everyone. I too think this is a great concept for the beginning boatbuilder. I purchased plans for a 19ft center console Boston Whaler approximately 2 years ago, but haven’t as yet started on it. Ahhh, the joys of raising a family and having to work for a living! I am hoping to get started soon though. Anyway, I am looking forward to checking in on this forum on a regular basis.
Regards!
July 5th, 2006 at 10:16 am e
re: Biscuit Jointer
Why not just shiplap both edges ??
July 6th, 2006 at 11:21 am e
I am excited that WB decided to do this series. I think it will be very useful, aneducational and, most importantly, INSPIRATIONAL for those of us who would love to build a boat but are hesitant to take the plunge and actually do it. My only complaint is the long wait between articles - I want to see the sail plan and the finished project NOW!!!
One comment on the design itself - Every skiff plan I’ve ever looked at - and I’ve looked a plenty of them, believe me - has a skeg for added directional stability when rowing. I’m curious as to why this skiff does not have one.
July 7th, 2006 at 7:37 am e
The tool requirements list a table saw, which I have, but the illustrations show a bandsaw, which I don’t have. First, is it possible to cut the stem with a table saw? Secondly, if it is possible, the table saw only tilts in one direction, one side of the stem could be cut quite easily, how would one cut the other side? With a band saw I figure one could flip the blade 180° and keep on chugging, but I am trying to figure out how to make a table saw jig that will cut a tapered bevel on both sides of the stem with a 90° blade and still leave the “extra” 6-inches for clamping. Does anyone have a suggestion beside “Go buy a bandsaw, kid”?
July 8th, 2006 at 2:43 pm e
chrisinms, use a coping saw.
July 8th, 2006 at 2:50 pm e
Well, it would appear that WB got my money without delivering much of anything. I excitedly paid my 5.99 USD and received just slightly better than sketchy details. This same information could be found truly FOR FREE by searching the internet. As far as I could tell, the included ‘drawings’ were not to scale, and if they were, how much to suppose it would cost me to get them blown up? Or, I could spend an additional $35 (plus s/h) and wait for them to show up. But, of course, I have to send the money (and receive the plans) via snail mail. I thought this looked like a great 3-4 (weekend plus) project, but instead see that it’s a great way to separate me from my money.
Free Beginners Boatbuilding Project. HA!
July 8th, 2006 at 4:03 pm e
chrisinms, Try going to your local high school and ask for permision to use the woodworking classroom . They may have a bansaw, or join the locoal communities woodworking clubs.(friends with tools) If all else fails make a tablesaw jig. Use your mitre gage slot as a guide to build an angle sled to hold your piece at an angle and make a stopped cut.It will take some time to build because of accurracy. Sorry I can’t draw it out for you. These are just some ideas.
July 8th, 2006 at 4:14 pm e
Hi I would like to know if I could use MDF for the sides or something else like poplar.
Also the only long boards I could find so far is 2x’s construction material. Could that work??? I’ve never built a boat before so I don’t much about water proofing, and what kind of materials are okay to use. They may be stupid to ask , but I’m gonna ask anyway . I won’t be building until the sail part comes in . But I’ll check in to see how it’s going, and go give some Ideas.
July 10th, 2006 at 8:41 am e
Is SPF (spruce pine fir) such as sold as Home Depot or Lowes suitable where you specify white pine for planking?
July 10th, 2006 at 11:07 am e
donald1,
Thanks for the ideas. I’ll check the high school route first. I also thought about just cutting an untappered bevel, then setting up a 38° jig for the other cut. (90-26-26=38). It will still require hogging off more material by hand, which I’ve heard is good for you–builds character. Just ordered a spokeshave, probably should have ordered a drawknfe to boot. Anybody out there know where to pick up an adze for under $50?
Regards,
Chris
Ocean Springs, MS
July 11th, 2006 at 1:05 am e
Donald1 asks about using MDF for the sides.
In a word, DON’T! MDF is made of compressed sawdust and glue, and when it gets wet, it swells up and crumbles away. You know those bumps that develop under the veneer of a cheap table top? That’s because water got in under the veneer and made it swell.
I’ve taught beginning woodworking for a number of years. My advice is if you are a real novice, follow the instructions to the letter. You will learn an immense amount of new stuff if you follow the directions the first time. Save getting creative for the second time around.
Louise in Alaska
www.kenairestorations.com
July 11th, 2006 at 1:11 am e
Will there be instructions as to how to mount a motor somethwhat bigger than an electric trolling motor on this boat? My local river is pretty strong.
Louise in Alaska
www.kenairestorations.com
July 11th, 2006 at 12:33 pm e
I received my WB subscription issue #191 and found no insert “Getting Started…”.
Am I the only one? Is it newstand only?
July 11th, 2006 at 1:01 pm e
lheite asks:
Will there be instructions as to how to mount a motor somethwhat bigger than an electric trolling motor on this boat?
Louise,
Good advice about MDF, a lot of cabinets were ruined down here last year and are being replaced by face veneered plywood instead.
The Coasties don’t recommend going higher than 5hp with this skiff’s dimensions(maybe 7.5 if the boarding officer’s friendly), see the Backyard Boat Builder’s Handbook and plug in the numbers. Don’t know where you’d hang it though.
http://www.uscg.mil/d8/mso/louisville/webstuff/comdtpubp16761_3b.pdf
If you think you need more power, then this may not be the boat for you. Good Luck!
Chris
OS, MS
July 11th, 2006 at 2:53 pm e
Thanks, Chris, for the heads-up on the Coast Guard rating. This is only one of several boats my guy and I are considering building. I thought it looked like a good lake boat (we have access to a lot of lakes) but the good - incredible - salmon fishing is in the river. I might build one anyhow, preparatory to my next community woodworking class. It looks like a nice little boat.
Louise in Alaska
www.kenairestorations.com
July 11th, 2006 at 9:54 pm e
Welcome to everyone/which way to the bow!
July 12th, 2006 at 11:18 am e
Is anyone having trouble registering and posting? If you are, please email me: carl@WoodenBoat.com
And don’t forget to hit “Control +” to enlarge the screen here.
Matt will be responding to your questions shortly. Oh, and Yellowbeard: The insert should be right after p. 32 in the issue. If it is NOT there, please give me your mailing address and we’ll ship you one. Our printer is by no means flawless…
Thanks, All.
July 12th, 2006 at 4:15 pm e
Wow. Just priced 1×12 clear pine (1×10 not available). $4.95/ft. 16′ x $5=$80, 80×4 = $320. 1×8 - $3.32/ft. It’s still affordable, but certainly not inexpensive.
July 12th, 2006 at 5:40 pm e
Matt says that he couldn’t post to this service, so I am doing so for him. From Matt in response to your questions above:
Here are answers to the questions that have accumulated here over the past week
1) Questions and answers will be posted for all to see,
2) Someone asks about alternative materials for this boat. A plywood bottom might work. Plywood sides will not. Don’t try that. Why? Because this boat has no chine logs. Chine logs are the structural members that, in some flat-bottomed boats, you nail the bottom to. Maynard, designer of the lumberyard skiff, did away with the chine logs by using extra-thick sides. You nail the bottom right to the sides of this boat. You can’t effectively nail a bottom to plywood sides; they won’t hold the nails well enough.
You might get away with a plywood bottom. We haven’t tried that… yet. Do not use MDF, or medium density fiberboard. I build a functional mockup of a kitchen using this stuff, knowing full well that when it got wet it would self-destruct, and then I’d have to build a real kitchen. Guess what? I had to build a real kitchen within a year.
3) There will be no further plans published for this boat. We’ve published all of the information needed to build it, though we expect certain steps will need amplification. That’s why this web site is here. Ask away.
4) Is the sailing version available? No, not yet. Maynard is currently prototyping that. Stay tuned.
5) Sk1pjak: You want to know about a larger skiff. You should have a look at Walter Baron’s Lumberyard Skiff, and www.oldwharf.com. Nice, simple, rugged boat. You ask if fiberglass is necessary for such a boat. No, it is not. But it will indeed resist abrasion better than an unsheathed plywood hull will. Your call.
6) acguru: A biscuit jointer? This question is answered in the thread above. I’d avoid it for the same reasons. If you want to add complication to this joint, a shiplap or a spline would be better.
7) rmichaelseng3: No, we will not cover how to build a wooden trailer. But we did publish an article years ago on how to build a buckboard trailer. See WoodenBoat magazine number 101—and a followup, with corrections, in number 102. Personally, I think you should leave trailer construction to the manufacturers.
8) marvin2: Would a keel or skeg be needed for the sailing version? A definite maybe. The rig is not yet designed, so we can’t say for sure.
9) doryman and dcloppy: The intent of this publication is to allow you to build right from the article, with no further plans purchase needed. This is our policy with all of our how to build articles. We offer plans for those who want them. Detail might be scant on those seat supports, though. We’ll get some photographic detail online soon.
10) Chrisinms: Can you cut the stem on a table saw? Yes you can. You’ll have to devise an appropriate jig, and proceed with caution. You can also do this job pretty quickly with a drawknife, followed by a spokeshave, followed by a handplane. That’s how you should do it if you don’t have a bandsaw. Contrary to Kevin’s advice, I think a coping saw would make a horribly wavy cut here. A ripsaw would work, but it would wear out your arm in the process. We’re going to photograph—and, perhaps, film—the drawknife process and post the photos here.
11) Donald1: No MDF, as stated above
12) tomhaven12 and 2X construction material of SPF? That stuff’s not so good for this boat. It’s too thick to bend, and probably too brittle to bend. It’d be better to go with more pieces of narrower-width select pine. (see my note at the end of this)
13) Donald1: You don’t need an adze for this boat. But a drawknife, as stated above, will save you from the bandsaw work on the stem. We’re going to post photos of that process—probably late next week, or early the week after.
13) Can you use a bigger a motor? No.
14) Yellowbeard: You have no insert in you magazine? Apologies for that. It’s a printing glitch. Send Carl your mailing address, and he’ll get one to you immediately.
15) The weight? Good question. We haven’t weighed it. But it’s in the couple-hundred pound range. It’s not cartoppable; perish that thought. Capacity is for two people—more at your peril.
Finally: I’m in touch with a specialty pine mill here in Maine, and have asked them to come up with a quote for milling, packing, and shipping a materials kit for this boat. This mill specializes in wide pine. Beautiful stuff, carefully dried. I’ve asked them to include bottom planking, too. Not sure how this will shake out, but I want you to know now it’s in progress, as it might affect your purchasing decisions. You’ll go directly to them, not through WB, if this works out. Stay tuned here for details.
All for now—
Matt
July 12th, 2006 at 6:37 pm e
You know, I agree… this was supposed to be a starter print, not a taste to buy a blueprint. I do not understand all of the booklet we were supplied with and
I have built a boat or two. I am at a loss as to what they are planning here.